For those of you seeking the short answer the expertise cap is 23 Expertise Skill (roughly 177 Expertise Rating) at a conversion rating of 7.69 to 1 skill.
The Actual Expertise Cap
It has been suggested that the actual expertise cap is something much closer to 22.4 expertise skill (roughly 172 expertise rating). This is the value shown on the Elitist Jerks 4.0.1 rogue thread. However, the recommended cap to achieve is 23 Expertise Skill.
Why get 23 Expertise Skill?
When you obtain 22 Expertise Skill you will be dodged still by your target enemy. Once you have obtained 23 expertise skill you will not be dodged anymore. Therefore the Expertise Cap is recognised as 23 Expertise Skill. This is because this is the number of skill you need to obtain in order to become un-dodgable (if that's even a word).
Q: So is it okay to have slightly less Expertise than this?
A: Yes, you can have anywhere between 172 and 177 Expertise rating and you will not be dodged.
Q: Wait, isn't it 26 expertise skill?
A: Not anymore, Blue poster Ghostcrawler informed us recently that it is now 23 skill at level 80, but it should be 26 again at level 85 in Cataclysm.
New Dodge Value
For those that want to know the new dodge value for expertise is something more like 5.62% which has come down from the original 6.53% we are used to. This of course is prior to any expertise deductions to be made. The CSC3 program has also been updated so make sure you get your version up to date in order to calculate your crit cap with the new dodge value in mind.
Thanks for the update.
ReplyDeleteI thought that expertise was irrelevant to most melee classes for pve raiding due to the fact that we are standing behind the boss 95% of the time.
ReplyDeleteat neo
ReplyDeletePlayers can't dodge attacks from behind, but mobs can.
Calicia
standing behind the boss eliminates parry but not dodge. if we werent standing the behind the boss wed need something like 60 expertise (i think closer to 55 at level 80 now, 60 again at level 85). see our post on why rogues stand behind the boss or further explanation.
ReplyDeleteI'm confused... The expertise cap AFAIK is the minimum amount of expertise you need in order for the boss not to dodge your attacks. That's a very well defined amount. You say:
ReplyDelete"When you obtain 22 Expertise Skill you will be dodged still by your target enemy. Once you have obtained 23 expertise skill you will not be dodged anymore."
But then you say:
"Yes, you can have anywhere between 172 and 177 Expertise rating and you will not be dodged."
How much MINIMUM expertise rating do I need in order for the boss not to dodge?
okay lets see if i can convey this subject in a different way for you :)
ReplyDeletethe actual expertise skill you need to obtain is 22.4 expertise skill (inbetween 22 and 23 skill) thats why at 22 you will be dodged but at 23 you will not. However if you get exactly 23 expertise skill in rating (177) you will bve over the expertise cap by 0.6 skill (because its actually 22.4 not 23). SO, 22.4 expertise skill = 172 expertise rating. so if you get anywhere between 172 and 177 rating you are safe, even if your in game stats table shows you are only at 22 skill (because you dont quite have enough to change it to 23).
SO
the absolute minimum rating you need is 172 expertise rating
this is 22.4 skill but you will never see this value. so skill wise the minimum is 23 skill (177)
so, if you have 172 rating you are good to go and its okay if you are a little over this, or a little below 23 so long as it falls between 172 and 177 rating.
summary: 172 rating
Ok, now I understand. Thank you =)
ReplyDeleteActually wait, if I don't need more than 172 rating (22.4 skill), why is it recommended to shoot for 23 skill (177 rating)?
ReplyDeleteAlthough it's only 5 points of difference, this can have an impact on how you gem or reforge depending on your gear set.
In my opinion, maybe it's best to have in mind how much rating you need not how much skill, since the UI doesn't show the decimal part of your skill points and the rating is always an integer. I understand this is probably only a problem now with the crazy conversions of 4.0.1 and in lvl 85 the required expertise skill is an integer again (I think... and hope XD).
yeh at 85 Ghostcrawler says it should be back to 26 skill. It's just gone a bit funny at 80 after the patch.
ReplyDeleteBasically the geenral advice is get 23 expertise skill. It's solid ground and its not complicated that way.
However, we created the secondary blog post that look sat expertise in more detail for more advanced rogue players who like to perfectly optimise thier gear... so with this in mind... advanced players are recommended to go for 22.4 expertise skill... :)
At the end of the day though, it's recomended you get anywhere between 172 and 177 rating because you cant control every sum of rating yuou obtain so it's generally thoguth so long as your rating hits somewhere inbetween those two numbers it's fine and you shouldn't worry too much about it. At least not until cataclysm anyway :)
Great guides, read everything, agree with everything, wondered if this particular page is very slightly outdated? Perhaps a very recent patch. Your playing Cata, I assume, check the expertise.
ReplyDeleteWith 196 expertise rating, I get +6 expertise, 6% chance to be dodged by level 88 and 12.50% chance to be parried according to blizz stats on character information.
So... am I missing something or is there a new expertise cap rating over the 200's?
yes you need the new cata exp guide:
ReplyDeletecata guide found here:
http://pverogues.blogspot.com/p/cataclysm-rogue-guide.html
expertise for cata found here:
http://pverogues.blogspot.com/2010/02/why-do-rogues-stand-behind-boss.html